Breaking Barriers in PA Education: The Inspiring Road of Natalia Rangel

Breaking Barriers in PA Education: The Inspiring Road of Natalia Rangel

Hosts Cody Sasek and Adrian Banning (Butler University’s Doctor of Medical Science Bridge Program) interview Natalia Rangel, a first-generation PA originally from Cúcuta, Colombia, who moved to Florida, attended PA school at Case Western Reserve University, received her DMS degree from the Butler University Bridge Program and now lives and works as a neurosurgery PA-C in Arizona. Natalia describes applying to PA school late with little guidance, advises applicants to use mentorship organizations (including PAs for Latino Health, The PAC, NSBPA) and fee assistance, and emphasizes casting a wide net while avoiding costly admissions “coaching.” She shares her study approach in PA school, her decision to hire a lawyer to review her first job contract, and how a delayed start date led to a temporary flu-trial research job while beginning the Butler DMS Bridge Program. Natalia discusses her leadership work with PAs for Latino Health, scholarship awareness, precepting and mentoring students, and plans to support Arizona’s emerging PA program.

00:00 Welcome and Introductions
01:38 Natalia Origin Story
04:19 Finding Case Western
04:55 Applying Without Guidance
06:53 Mentorship Over Paywalls
11:34 PA School Study Routines
13:52 Why Pursue a Doctorate
14:55 Contracts and Career Timing
17:35 PAs for Latino Health
20:23 Research Mindset and Planning
22:20 Building PA Community in Arizona
26:53 Mentors and Saying No
28:48 Closing Thanks and Wrap Up

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Cody Sasek 0:05

Hi, I'm Cody Sek. I'm with the Doctor Medical Science Bridge Program at Butler University.

Adrian Banning 0:10

And I am ane banning, and I am too. Welcome to Building Bridges podcast, where we hope to bring people together, whether they're PAs or not, or in doctoral programs or related to doctoral programs or not. We just wanna bring you interesting people who are doing great things, and today we have Natalia Rangel here who is an inspiration, frankly. welcome, Natalia.

Natalia Rangel 0:33

you so much for having me. It's truly an honor. I never thought I would be doing a podcast, like my boyfriend was telling me yesterday, we gonna practice. I was like I know these people very well and we're having a conversation with friends.

Cody Sasek 0:47

And Natalia it's funny that you asked that because I asked Adrian the same thing when we started, like, how do, what do I do? And it turns out you just talk. You just have a, you just have a conversation and we're all pretty well equipped for that.

Natalia Rangel 1:00

Yeah, my biggest thing, but again, it doesn't happen often, but sometimes when I get very nervous, all of a sudden this big Colombian accent, like Sophia Ra comes out and I'm like, where is this coming from? But yeah if that happens, I'm nervous, but I feel safe in a safe environment, so I, that's why I'm doing this with you too. Thank you for having me.

Adrian Banning 1:27

Yeah. Amazing. I love it.

Cody Sasek 1:29

There are worse like nervous presentations that could come out. I feel like I've lived several of them in, in things. So all, all good?

Adrian Banning 1:38

So just before we started recording Natalia, I was saying you're, it's three hours earlier where you are right now than it is for me. And frankly I feel like it's early. It's one hour earlier for me than for Cody. So you and Cody are two hours apart. You and I are three hours apart 'cause you're in Arizona but European at Case Western, but that's as far as I knew, not wasn't in Arizona last time I checked.

Natalia Rangel 2:06

So it's interesting 'cause when people ask me Where are you from? It's always like this crazy story. I'm never able to give like an exact answer 'cause I feel that doesn't define me. So I have to take it from the beginning.

Adrian Banning 2:19

Okay, take it from the beginning.

Natalia Rangel 2:20

I was born and raised in Cucuta, Colombia, which is a small city in the border of Venezuela. Then in 2012, I moved to St. Petersburg, Florida, and that's where I was raised. And then I got accepted to Case Western in Ohio. I moved there for two and a half years, and then I've been in a relationship for almost eight years now, and he got matched in Arizona, after I finished PA school, we were like, oh, let's move to Arizona. So it's been like a half circle almost.

Adrian Banning 2:55

Amazing. But

Natalia Rangel 2:56

Yeah.

Adrian Banning 2:57

is that where you went to PA school?

Natalia Rangel 2:59

A PA school was in Case Western in Cleveland, Ohio.

Adrian Banning 3:02

With Kennedy.

Natalia Rangel 3:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Adrian Banning 3:05

So Kennedy's like

Natalia Rangel 3:06

I met my soulmate.

Adrian Banning 3:10

Kennedy's not on the podcast today physically, but in spirit and Natalia's best friend, fellow pa, and also went through the Butler DMS Bridge program. But, so then how are you working for Case Western but living in Arizona?

Natalia Rangel 3:24

Oh, I'm not working for Case Western. I yeah, no, if anything I do a lot of things like I'm A-N-C-C-P-A ambassador now, so I try to represent like my background through that. But no, I don't work for Case Western. I do like I did, my, I got a grant to the N-C-C-P-A Foundation and I started a whole program there that it's called PA Salud, PA Students for Latino and underrepresented communities. So now it's part of their curriculum. So it's nice to see that my legacy continue even though I graduated. But no, I, not officially yet, at least I've been trying to convince them to. Do something with me.

Adrian Banning 4:11

Sounds like foreshadowing.

Natalia Rangel 4:12

Yeah,

Adrian Banning 4:16

Okay. Amazing.

Natalia Rangel 4:18

yeah. No, it's such a great school. I actually have one of my mentees who got accepted to K and I was trying my best not to be biased and tell her, you do whatever you think it's best for you. But it's hard going to a program where you were so involved in, and the community and the teachers were so nice and like it became family. So I share all my experience with her and I told her like, if I had to do it again, I would definitely go to case. And it's one of those situations where I really, it was meant to be. Because I'm not the best example of like, how do you apply to PA school? Because I didn't have anybody guiding me. It was just like, oh, I'm doing this. Is this the right way? Like now that I know how the processes and I have all these mentees and they're like ahead of the game, they're doing everything like since January, that wasn't me. Like when I tell people I was meant to be a pa. I applied like late September

Adrian Banning 5:26

For what? For? For a what deadline.

Natalia Rangel 5:30

I didn't have a deadline. I was just seeing what programs were open. Yeah.

Adrian Banning 5:35

like when did your program start, for example?

Natalia Rangel 5:37

oh, case started in April. Yeah. May of the following year, but their deadline was like November,

Adrian Banning 5:47

amazing.

Natalia Rangel 5:48

So

Adrian Banning 5:49

you got in on your first application round. Amazing.

Natalia Rangel 5:52

And now that I know how, it's a insane process. I'm like it was meant to be. 'cause I had no guidance at all. I didn't know what I was doing. I did have a lot of people look at my personal statement, but other than that it's just mind blowing to me how all of these kids nowadays are like preparing and have a coach and know what's happening. I'm like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing.

Adrian Banning 6:20

It's so comforting to hear you say that frankly. 'cause I'm first Gen two and so are you, did you Cody, did you have a guide like in PA school application?

Cody Sasek 6:30

No and while you were talking, I was thinking about how every time an application season would roll around and I'd start looking at applications and start being part of interviews. I think every year, I would think to myself. I'm not sure my application would get me into PA school now.

Adrian Banning 6:46

Same.

Cody Sasek 6:47

and it was just doing what I thought was best, I think which worked out. Do. Natalia do you have any advice for, if somebody was in a, is in a similar situation, like any big picture advice on the application process?

Natalia Rangel 7:02

Yes, I would say do your research and look out for all of these amazing organizations that have mentorship programs. And you guys know I'm very involved in PAs for Latino Health, but there are so many other organizations that are helping students without charging a million dollars, which is something I didn't know about. I saw some people that were charging, let me review your personal statement. Oh, let's do mock interviews and stuff, but I didn't have the money for that. Applying for PA school was already.

Adrian Banning 7:35

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 7:35

making a big hole. Again, I didn't have anybody supported. That's when I created all of my credit cards and start, and again, it was my first try. I was like, I'm applying to 20 schools. I don't care where it is, but at least I'm casting a wide net,

Adrian Banning 7:49

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 7:49

thing that I tell my mentees, you need to cast a wide net. Get out of your comfort zone, because will be two and a half years and they go by quick. but yeah, I would say look into all of these organizations. They will help out. I don't know if you guys heard about the pac. The PAC is another organization that also helps out all of these students with their essays. They do mock interviews. PAs for Latino Health do that. B-S-S-P-A also do that. So there's so many for students and pre-pass to choose from without having to pay a kidney.

Cody Sasek 8:25

Yeah, it, some of the prices are absurd.

Natalia Rangel 8:29

Yeah.

Cody Sasek 8:30

that,

Natalia Rangel 8:30

and it's all of like people like us, people who are willing to, I didn't have anybody help me and I don't

Adrian Banning 8:36

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 8:37

to continue being a thing and I don't want to like upcharge students. 'cause

Adrian Banning 8:41

Right.

Natalia Rangel 8:42

are just living on their minimum wage. CNA job, scribe ma jobs, those are jobs that are not paying a whole lot. So you need to look for your people. It's what I tell them.

Adrian Banning 8:55

yeah, absolutely. I also wonder the people who are charging for this many times. When I look, if I even bring myself to look, they're not people who've sat on the other side of the admissions table. They're not people who've been PA faculty, who've been on admissions committees, who really know what schools they're looking for. Normally they're, what they're saying their street cred is. I got into PA school and I've maybe worked with people who got into PA school, but doesn't mean that you know what? The schools are looking for. It may just be that you're a whole bunch of smart people who we're gonna get in anyway. And I don't know, it just doesn't feel right to me to say because I did it, I can now coach you through it when you don't know the flip side of it.

Cody Sasek 9:38

And I think the reality too is that, people who are applying to PA school are sharp, they're driven. And a little bit of mentorship and a little bit of guidance, I think for those folks goes, can go a really long way and. And so it doesn't have to be a, you don't have to have a 10 point plan to get, oftentimes it's just like a little guidance, a little how you talk about yourself and how you frame things and, maybe, oh, here's a gap in your application. You might look at that. I think that goes a long way rather than spending so much money. CASA's also not cheap.

Adrian Banning 10:06

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 10:07

Yeah I remember when I applied it was at least something dollars. And that's without the secondaries. 'cause then

Adrian Banning 10:15

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 10:16

oh yeah, you want, you really wanna see another essay? And then they ghosted me. 'cause I'm pretty sure I never even covered, rejected from some schools.

Adrian Banning 10:23

Oof.

Cody Sasek 10:24

that's too bad.

Adrian Banning 10:25

Poor form.

Natalia Rangel 10:26

Yeah.

Cody Sasek 10:26

other, great resource is that PAEA does have grants for for CASP application fees. They can do some waivers and I think they try and do as much as they can. If you're listening and you're a pre-PA student, or know someone who is that may be checking out the PAEA website and looking at that information may be helpful.

Adrian Banning 10:45

I think it's also worth reaching out to the schools directly, I went to PA school from oh four to oh six, so a long time ago, but I like you, Natalia. I don't know. I was just trying my best. I applied to one school I applied to where I went to undergrad and I got in and they needed a $500 deposit, which I didn't have. And. just called them and I said look, I didn't apply to any other schools. I'm definitely coming here. we do anything about this? And they waived it. And I can't promise that anyone's gonna have luck with that, but sometimes if you reach out to the school directly they know something or they have something up their sleeve, or might just take pity on you.

Cody Sasek 11:21

Yeah.

Adrian Banning 11:22

But there's

Natalia Rangel 11:22

try.

Adrian Banning 11:23

you have to try. There's, I'm, all the admissions. People at PA programs right now who are listening to this are like, I'm gonna strangle her. But but I don't know, that's what worked for me 20 years ago. Okay. So you went to school, let me see here, from like 2022 to 2024, does that track, and then if I'm looking at your LinkedIn profile correctly, were you also, I won't tell your program director, were you also working part-time during PA school?

Natalia Rangel 11:52

No I need to fix those days. No, that's a

Adrian Banning 11:55

Okay.

Natalia Rangel 11:55

no-no for PA school and

Adrian Banning 11:58

you would be surprised.

Natalia Rangel 11:59

Yeah. But for me, the way that I, I studied and I told my, and I tell my mentees, is just you are not studying to pass grades anymore, you're actually gonna be taking care of people's lives. So this is serious business.

Adrian Banning 12:15

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 12:15

you don't know something it could affect how you're treating patients. No, I really focus and I some, and sometimes I wonder, like in undergrad, if I wasn't working three jobs, would I have had a four plus GPA

Adrian Banning 12:29

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 12:30

I didn't pay attention to studying as much as I did in PA school. But it, and again, that's another thing that I also I like to share my story so people know what to think of and how to plan things and hopefully learn from my mistakes. Because I decided that I didn't want roommates to keep because my schedule, I would wake up at 3:40 AM and start studying at four and study from four to seven 30 before I went to school. 'cause after school I was just pooped and I couldn't do anything else. 'cause school is from eight to five and I'm like, I just need to go to bed. So I wanted to make sure that nobody was gonna interfere. 'cause a lot of people are night owls and I can't do that once the sun goes out. So am I going out. So that's why yes, I took more out in loans, but at the end it benefited me. So that's what did and hopefully it helps to other people who are listening. find a schedule that works best for you. If you're a night person and you're able to study after having a whole eight hour shift of to people talk about medicine, for you. But I'm not that person.

Adrian Banning 13:49

Good for you.

Natalia Rangel 13:50

Yeah,

Adrian Banning 13:52

So then after that rigor, somehow you heard about. The Butler DMS Bridge program and you were like, you know what? Sign me up. How did that process go and were you and Kennedy in it together?

Natalia Rangel 14:07

So it was funny. So Kay sent us an email saying there's an info session. And I was like, okay, let's go. And actually a bunch of our friends went to it and we was like, okay, that's not bad. But then I went to conferences and I was looking around and I saw that all of these big leaders had some sort of doctorate under. Title and I was like, somebody's cooking here. What's not being shared? How come all of these leaders have like in their titles wanna be a leader. Is that part of it? So when I went to the info session, they explain everything and I was like, I think that's doable. And again, there's a plan. and I'm, thank God has a plan and has already the trajectory made for me. 'cause when I was graduating, I graduated in August, I got a job offer in August. But again, as a first gen and learning from all of my amazing mentors and listening to all these people talk, I was like, I'm gonna hire a lawyer to look over my contract. 'cause a lot of new grad PAs get over on their first contract. Can I say that?

Adrian Banning 15:18

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 15:19

Okay.

Adrian Banning 15:19

I think it's true. I'm leaving it.

Natalia Rangel 15:21

Okay.

Adrian Banning 15:22

It's not live. We can edit whatever you want, but That's true and that's real.

Natalia Rangel 15:26

on their first contract because they don't know better. And like another thing that we are not talking to each other, talking about contracts 'cause money. Money is this big taboo and like you don't wanna compare yourself. And I was new in Tucson. I didn't know anybody besides my boyfriend, so I was like, I'm gonna hire a lawyer and I'll pay whatever. There's my credit card again. I'll just swipe it over so somebody can tell me what's going on and read each word. And again, it's all finance wording, so I don't know what any of this. So I did hire a lawyer to look over my contract and that whole back and forth process over from August to November. November

Adrian Banning 16:08

Wow.

Natalia Rangel 16:09

So those three months pushed out my starting date. So I was supposed to start of January of 2025, but I ended up starting in May of 2025. now I have this gap of working at the same time. I was like, okay, I still need some income because what am I gonna live out from? So that's when I got their research job, which was perfect because it was a temporary job. They wanted people to work on a flu trial which it was from like October to December and they extended my contract till February. So it gave me like. Perfect timing for me to get an income and then stop before I started my new job, a neurosurgery. When I heard the dates, I was like, okay, I can make this work. And then I did tell them on the interview like, Hey, I'm doing my doctor program. Would it be okay if I just clock out for this amount of time? And they was like, yeah, that's fine. I was like, okay. It's meant to be. So that's how the whole doctorate program happened. And then they were able to work with me. There was the time difference sometimes. So it kind of work in my in my benefit because some of the time it was like during lunch hours 'Cause it the later classes were 3:00 PM and but no, yeah, they worked.

Cody Sasek 17:35

So you talked about how you saw all these leaders and wanted to step up and make a difference. And one of the big ways you've done that is through your involvement in. PAs for Latino Health, one of the, one of the, probably the most active constituent organizations in a PA. Can you tell us a little bit about if somebody's out there thinking I think I'd like to get involved in something, like some sort of, cause how do, how'd you go about engaging with with that group and maybe some of the work that you're doing now?

Natalia Rangel 18:03

You would reach out. We have the blh.org website. You go, if you have questions, you can click the contact us and we get a direct email. And when I say we, it's literally on my phone. I get all day emails, nothing gets forgotten. I'll if it's pertains to me, 'cause I'm the PR membership relationship, I'll be the one who responds if it pertains to someone else. 'cause a lot of times we also have PAs who wanna do CME talks and then I'll send it to that person so they can arrange something. But no, if it's a pre-PA who wants to get involved? 'cause we do also have a student alliance membership and all of the students are in there and they're all helping each other. There's that. If you are a pre-PA and then you got accepted to school, we will help you set up mock interviews so you're prepared. We go over personal statements. They have an amazing mentorship program. And shout out to Samantha and Shayla. Who are the ones involved? Samantha's actually a student at Duke. So she's super involved and she makes sure that everybody gets their mock interview, set up, their personal statements, and they also do some shadowing too. So it's great. So anyone who wants to be involved get, send us an email and I'll get to me and I'll make sure I point you to the right person.

Cody Sasek 19:25

Yeah, and I imagine that's true for just about any opportunity to get involved. Sometimes we see these sort of like barriers that oftentimes we put up.

Natalia Rangel 19:33

And that's something that I learned being in leadership. I was like, I thought it would be harder to get in contact with someone and it's not, you just have to do it.

Adrian Banning 19:44

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 19:44

same thing goes for scholarships sometimes. Now that I help with the PLH scholarship and then I help with the National Hispanic Health Foundation scholarship. Okay, I thought this was like a crazier process or my, honestly, my biggest surprise was when I thought it was like a hundred thousand people applying and it's less than a hundred people applying. And I was like. crazy to me that that many people are applying for this free money.

Cody Sasek 20:17

Yeah,

Natalia Rangel 20:17

Yeah

Cody Sasek 20:18

you just don't know until you throw your hat in the ring. Sometimes I.

Adrian Banning 20:23

Every time we talk, I like get teared up because like you're so passionate and we were in research design, which is. How we started chatting. You were in the research design class that I was leading, and you were like, yeah, at work we do this. And I was like, what do you mean at work? And you were like, oh, like I'm involved in research at my job right now. And I was like, hold on a second. What? That's literally what we're talking about. Can you. Talk to us about your job and you were working for like a clinical research organization as you were doing your doctorate, and you were like, I learned this yesterday and I can apply it. And I was like, oh my gosh. That's amazing. you said once of all these things that you're involved with and going forward, you just, it seems like you I don't know what your process is. You can correct me, but you seem to have thought and a plan and what's next, what's gonna be beneficial, but not just to you, like to your community, then you just start to take steps and do it. And that barrier of thinking it would be too hard or there's too much. I think sometimes people on the other side are waiting for people to just reach out, like the door is open and we just want people to walk through and you're like I'm just gonna walk through that door. And you said something once, like if you want something. You can just work towards it and you can achieve what you want. And I was like sobbing. Like I remember getting off that call and being like, oh my God. Like

Natalia Rangel 21:43

and

Adrian Banning 21:43

I'm,

Natalia Rangel 21:43

the door is closed, there's always windows open.

Adrian Banning 21:51

so how do you, what's next? Like how do you make the plan? Do you

Natalia Rangel 21:55

is so crazy that you're talking about that because this past week we had a FaceTime with Kennedy. We were having this exact same conversation where we're like, we always have something going on. We're always looking for what the, what next, what's next? And

Adrian Banning 22:11

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 22:11

now that we finish our doctorate, we're just at a standpoint. I do have a, what's next? I'm not gonna talk on her behalf. But,

Adrian Banning 22:20

Okay.

Natalia Rangel 22:20

so the University of Arizona is actually opening a PA program and they're in the process of getting the coding, how do you word that? Not certified, but like cred, credential cred, yeah, all of that. So I already signed up to be a preceptor for them,

Adrian Banning 22:40

Oh my gosh.

Natalia Rangel 22:41

like to be involved more in like the faculty. Aspect of it, but I'll let them get settled before I start throwing all my crazy ideas to them.

Cody Sasek 22:51

We might have some connections that we might I might feel compelled to send an email to say, NA is awesome. And if, another example of it feels like, oh, there's probably not an opportunity to get involved. But oftentimes PA programs are. Certainly preceptors are super excited about engaging with folks, but also things like admissions committees or different service activities. There are all of these sorts of things where you know, by just being people, being aware that you're interested that's. That gives you great opportunities to if it's getting the foot in the door or if it's just an opportunity to do great work that, makes a difference then that too. Yeah. What another example of, these, we can put up barriers that sometimes aren't exactly there.

Adrian Banning 23:35

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 23:36

I work with their undergrad. They have this group called Mexona, and it's a group of undergrad students all pre-health that go to and Rocky Point in Mexico once a month. I preset for them and all of a sudden the word spread that there was a PA with them. And now I have five people shadowing me because there's never PAs involved in these type of things. There's a lot of people who wanna know what PAs do and how they approach medicine and all that. And that's something that I did notice. I did get a warning before. It's Arizona is not very too PA friendly. And it's not like it's pa not pa friendly. It's just that there is a bigger. Community of nurse practitioners over PAs. So whenever p and now that hopefully now that they have the new PA program, things are starting to change. But even like for me, as a patient looking for a provider, I'm always looking for my PA people. It's hard to find them. I precept for this undergrad students and then they were like, can we come shadow you in clinic? Can we do all this? I was like, yes. I'm always open to have students and I'm slowly getting to that point. I sound very confident about what I do, but it's just that I am comfortable talking to students and explain to them my thought process. And like I have an amazing physician, my neurosurgeon that I work with, who has always has been my best friend in this process of me as a new grad. So he's always has the door open with me asking him a million questions. So that also helps a lot as a new grad.

Cody Sasek 25:18

No kidding. I that first job, it's, it makes such a difference when you have a, particularly, I remember my experience as well working in a surgical specialty where had the opportunity to work really closely and how, thinking about how beneficial that was and that he was willing to, take some time to teach and, have a, probably have a little patience most days. That, that makes a huge difference.

Adrian Banning 25:42

I think Natalia too. There's Northern Arizona University where you are and.

Natalia Rangel 25:48

Phoenix, so it's two hours away from me.

Adrian Banning 25:51

Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes they need preceptors and if you're allowed to take students, the other thing I'm thinking is you continued your PA school work in your doctoral capstone, and I know that you have a passion for it. There's also the A-A-P-A-P-A-E-A research fellowship, and you already have a research plan laid out from your capstone, which is what they want. So just you don't, no pressure, but. To continue to forward that plan, if that's something that's on your agenda, that's there for you too. And like Cody said, he and I have been around for a minute. We know some people in Arizona, and we would definitely encourage you. I'm not saying I'm gonna pull any strings for the research that's blinded. I can't.

Cody Sasek 26:42

How, however, though you would have the ear of a formal former A-A-P-A-P-A-E, A research fellow, which would be Dr. Adrian Banning. So someone who knows a thing or two,

Adrian Banning 26:53

I will just say it was I didn't want to apply. I was tired. I just finished my own doctorate and actually someone in Arizona sent an email to say Hey, don't give up. Can you just try and apply for this? And

Cody Sasek 27:06

I.

Adrian Banning 27:06

respected that I was first gen. Even now as I feel like I feel like a fully formed grownup. I'm so grateful to Rick Dean for just nudging me to keep trying and not get complacent. Because that fellowship for me opened thousand doors, like really was a slingshot, like for my career. But that's not, I know it's not right for everyone, but for me that was a big deal and I needed a mentor and I didn't even ask for it. This was where a mentor came and was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just nudge you a little bit. And I was like, oh, thank goodness.

Cody Sasek 27:38

And it,

Adrian Banning 27:39

every time I see Rick Dean, I tear up a little bit too. So the two of you like, I'm just like a mess. I'm a puddle.

Cody Sasek 27:44

yeah two, two great people.

Adrian Banning 27:46

Yeah.

Cody Sasek 27:46

And it's timing is such an interesting thing and this is a little bit. Philosophical, the timing being right and people, the opportunity and the people coming together and boy, Natalia, with the things you're doing that I can't imagine that there's not gonna be those opportunities out there for you. You might have the opposite problem where, like that whole idea of being intentional about. About what it is that, where you can make a big difference. And that can be, that can be tough early in your career. 'cause everything, there's so many great opportunities and already people have recognized you as a leader and someone who's willing to step up and do valuable work and that's awesome. But it also gets, it can get a little tricky when it's, when it when the volume of the work gets in the way of the really quality or impactful work that you wanna do, but. I trust you'll balance that.

Natalia Rangel 28:33

Thank

Adrian Banning 28:33

sure you say no sometimes.

Natalia Rangel 28:35

Yeah. That's a big thing that I learned lately, how you have to step some boundaries sometimes.

Adrian Banning 28:43

I'm sure you do that with grace and compassion the way you do everything else. Natalia, we said we wouldn't take too much of your time up and it's very early morning there and you probably have work, so we won't. I just wanna thank you for everything that you're doing and I'm so grateful to have met you and I'm so grateful that you came to the Bridge program and Kennedy too, and that you have each other to go through and support each other. That's what an amazing dynamic duo the two of you are. But you do and say is just wildly inspirational. So thank you.

Natalia Rangel 29:15

Thank you so much for those. In words. You didn't need to say all that, but I appreciate both of you because again it's what I tell people too, 'cause even my mentee, so I was like, that's something that I always wanted to do. But I know it was on the table. I was like when the opportunity time, when the time gets here, just let me know. I know some great people and I know a great program too. But again if it wasn't because of your guys' support and the understanding that yes, this is the doctorate program and now we have like jobs and new, like new grads and jobs, you guys are so helpful and so understanding of all of our little barricades that we have to overpass. So thank you for being so kind and so generous with your time.

Cody Sasek 30:03

when you're working with. Amazing students who you can just see are gonna go out and make a huge difference. I think every educator will tell you that fills, that, fills the cup, and makes it all worthwhile. So thank you so much for everything and for joining us today.

Adrian Banning 30:18

Yeah.

Natalia Rangel 30:20

Thank you for having me.